romulusnr
08/02/07 12:42 PM
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I know I've said it before, but... It's really too bad that when a map is identified as a dupe, that the practice is to just nuke it instead of merging the content into the original.
I suppose admins have lots of maps to clean up after, etc., etc., and posters should check for dupes, etc., but still, it's too bad that any value of a dupe map just gets lost.
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kjfitz
08/02/07 02:03 PM
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I'm sorry. Yes, I agree that merging them makes sense. When I only have a few minutes between meetings to moderate and there are a dozen or more maps in the queue and a big pile are dupes I often just nuke them rather than take the time to merge them. I too wish there were a better solution. The moderators spend a lot of time fixing URLs, updating text and titles on request, re-categorizing maps (my biggest pet peave) that to take three minutes per map to merge the data just isn't viable.
Here's what I'll try. The other moderators may or may not do the same. When I see a dupe with a lot of data in it I'll drop a comment into it that it should be merged and a moderator can come back to it later. As long as people don't start abusing this and it looks like an understandable error then this can work. However if there are more that two or three in one batch by one poster then I'll probably get annoyed that the poster didn't use the 'nearby maps' tool provided and go ahead and nuke them regardless of the extra data.
How does that sound?
I suggest only entering the URL of a map first and then click the "nearby maps' button next to the URL on the submission page. That can save a lot of time entering all the data only to find out it is a dupe later.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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mlc1us
08/15/07 04:39 PM
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For what it's worth, I think the old map info should be merged into the new so the new imagery gets a fresh view on the VGT front page. Old maps could then be nuked, or moved to an archive area.
I really get discouraged when new BEV imagery is added and many locations are already posted as GM and knowing that if I submit a new map it will just be nuked. It takes almost as much effort to update thumbs and add a comment with the BEV url as it does to submit a new map...I usually just don't bother.
If it's only a question of the moderator's time, find someone to moderate who has plenty of time and could be the designated moderator to handle updates.
mlc1us
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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TexasAndroid
08/15/07 05:30 PM
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We really would not want the duplicate staying around, as that would defeat the whole purpose of avoiding duplicates. And there's really nowhere/no way to archive maps. One of the big reasons for merging into the old map has always been that the person who submitted it first got credit (in history, rankings, etc.) for the submission, and if the new map replaced the old then the old submitter would be losing their credits.
You do propose a interesting situation, though. There are a couple of possible solutions, though all involve Nic coding up something new to the site. One is to add some sort of archive capability. Another is to add some sort of capability to refresh old pages to the top. I'll start a thread in the Moderators section to go over the technicals, though of course the final descision is up to Nic.
One thing that we do have the capability currently to do has to do with the map's main thumbnail. By default that is set to the system that is defined in the original URL. But the moderators have the ability to set any of the thumbnails to be the main one, to show up on any thumbnail view of the map. I know that a number of times I have updated the thumbnail of a GM map with a new, much better BEV thumbnail, and then immediately flipped over to set the new thumbnail as the main one. I would see no real problem with users adding requests in the comments sections of maps to have moderators change the main ones on any particular map. The actual change would be up to the moderator who responds to the comment, but I know that if the new thumb is signifigantly better then I would gladly make such a switch.
TexasAndroid
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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nic
08/15/07 05:31 PM
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I'd rather not nuke old maps. They carry a lot of historical data such as views, the categories they're in, original poster, etc.
Alternatively, we could allow thumbnail updates to 're-trigger' a map to the front page if you'd like to see thumbnail updates there.
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TexasAndroid
08/15/07 05:33 PM
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And of course Nic replies moments after me.  I'll not bother with a separate Moderator forum thread then. Looks like this is going to be discussed here for now.
TexasAndroid
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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TexasAndroid
08/15/07 05:39 PM
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If the old one is in any way archived or nuked then all the things Nic mentions would be lost from the new map. I don't think categories would be a big deal to lose, as they can be replicated to the new map easily enough, but the other two things are important, view counts and original poster. Also lost would be the original posting date, any old comments, any linked pictures or stories, any thumbnail history, etc. None of these would be easily transferred over to the new map. Even if the map is archived, not nuked, where it is somehow moved to a semi-hidden state, all these old pieces of data would be lost. So I'm not too sure how such a system could be worked out to do this al effectively.
If Nic thinks that he can somehow refresh maps to the front page on certain circumstances, then that would IMHO be a better plan at this point.
TexasAndroid
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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mlc1us
08/15/07 05:50 PM
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Quote:
I'd rather not nuke old maps. They carry a lot of historical data such as views, the categories they're in, original poster, etc.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Alternatively, we could allow thumbnail updates to 're-trigger' a map to the front page if you'd like to see thumbnail updates there.
I like this idea, but if the new thumb is BEV the linked url should also be BEV.
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Pdunn
08/15/07 06:11 PM
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I agree with Mic1us. For today's issue with Neotrix's Brandenburg Gate duplicate and one other, I incorporated his comments into the existing map, and then updated the map with a BEV link. Since there was little or no description in the original maps, I don't think the first poster will mind the added content. However, for maps where the original poster has taken as much care and time as Neotrix and Mic1us do to add useful content, I imagine merging content might ruffle a few feathers.
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kjfitz
08/15/07 06:15 PM
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I would rather see a map go back to the top of the queue is it is updated significantly. I'd hate to have it set up that anyone could submit a dupe and the old one disappears or is archived. I could see a lot of hurt feelings and anger that would come from "dupe fights."
Also a lot of people who submit a map get very very angry when moderators even change the spelling or punctuation. To allow anyone at will to change (or merge) the data is just asking for problems.
Really I don't see the big deal. If the map already exists then update the thumbnail and enter a comment with the new URL and someone will update it. If you have more info for the description then enter it too. If the data is better or there is no description in the first place then we can copy it into the main description. Especially if you ask us to in the comments.
As for dupes... all the tools are in place to identify that something is a dupe before someone hits the submit key.
The only piece I see missing is the ability to bump a post back to today's postings. I'd like that ability but on a selective, not automatic basis.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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mlc1us
08/15/07 08:23 PM
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I'm just saying that I would be more inclined to submit updates if I thought the map would get a fresh view. Also, I think chronic dupe submitters should be nuked after they have been reminded of the process. Those who occasionally goof up and post a dupe ought to be given a little more consideration.
mlc1us
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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Parabellum
08/15/07 08:40 PM
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Quote:
If it's only a question of the moderator's time, find someone to moderate who has plenty of time and could be the designated moderator to handle updates.
Did I just hear someone volunteer? 
VGT Moderator
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