AlbinoFlea
05/24/06 02:03 AM
|
Looks as if Local Live has had a spiffy new style associated with it... bad news is that a permalink from a BE view no longer has a lat and lon in it:
Code:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjnfh8k88p7&style=o&lvl=2&scene=2973232
this can be somewhat remedied by taking a permalink from an aerial view:
Code:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=38.910977~-77.089467&style=h&lvl=19
Then re-inserting the lat and lon into the original link:
Code:
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=38.910977~-77.089467&style=o&lvl=2&scene=2973232
This seems an ungainly work-around, but it will have to do until somebody can figure out how
qgjnfh8k88p7 = 38.910977~-77.089467
|
kjfitz
05/24/06 01:19 PM
|
Playing with the coordinates I observe:
The first six characters encode latitude and the second six the longitude.
Just like standard lon/lat the most significant characters are on the left and the least on the right. Shifting the coordinates slightly to the NE causes a very small change in the 5th, 6th, 11th and 12th characters.
Numerical characters are of higher value greater than alphabetic characters.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
|
romulusnr
05/24/06 02:25 PM
|
That doesn't seem right, because when I keep going to BE shots to the north, both sides change.
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjmg28k870b&style=o&lvl=1&scene=2973232 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjqkx8k8c6c&style=o&lvl=1&scene=2973137 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjg2v8k8v87&style=o&lvl=1&scene=160087 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjc7p8k9832&style=o&lvl=1&scene=160181 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjdp98k9r3c&style=o&lvl=1&scene=160125 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjjb68kb6h5&style=o&lvl=1&scene=167955 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjf058kbppv&style=o&lvl=1&scene=168087 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgj9428kc4fj&style=o&lvl=1&scene=168196 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgj8v18kcnnx&style=o&lvl=1&scene=169159 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjgwr8kd35c&style=o&lvl=1&scene=169029
Hmm. Fun fact: Going north in BE view doesn't necessarily take you directly north, it appears to take you a little bit east, too. (Could this be related to projection choice?)
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjf058kbppv&style=o&lvl=1&scene=168087 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&a...mp;scene=168087
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgj9428kc4fj&style=o&lvl=1&scene=168196 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&a...mp;scene=168196
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgj8v18kcnnx&style=o&lvl=1&scene=169159 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&a...mp;scene=169159
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qgjgwr8kd35c&style=o&lvl=1&scene=169029 http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&a...mp;scene=169029
Anyway, the code could simply be base 36.
One question is how they encode E/S i.e. negative coords; e.g. it could be via binary complement or it could be via adding half the range to the value to make it positive (i.e. coded lat = lat + 90; coded lon = lon +180).
FWIW, qgjgwr(b36) = 1599902811 and 8kd35c(b36) = 517932336, according to http://www.geocities.com/xulfrepus/folder/base.html
|
kjfitz
05/24/06 03:11 PM
|
I noticed that both changed when moving only horiz or vert in BE but that's because the BE images don't align with the cardinal points exactly.
If you move 'real' cardinal directions in LL then the BE images jump a little off center when you switch to BE mode so again both long and lat change in the encoded BE URL.
But if you move far enough in one direction and compare BE and LL URLs you'll see the relative change is large in the direction (lat/long) that you moved and very minor in the direction (lat/lon) that should have stayed the same. The trick is to look at the magnitude of the changes.
|
AlbinoFlea
05/24/06 04:52 PM
|
Quote:
One question is how they encode E/S i.e. negative coords; e.g. it could be via binary complement or it could be via adding half the range to the value to make it positive (i.e. coded lat = lat + 90; coded lon = lon +180).
Might not even be a consideration at this point since only the US has BE so you don't yet have to generate a change in sign.
|
AlbinoFlea
05/24/06 04:56 PM
|
Also have added hi-res aerial shots beyond North America...
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&a...p;scene=2973539
|
AlbinoFlea
05/24/06 04:59 PM
|
And apparently BE also... so I stand corrected:
Quote:
International Expansion
With this release, we have expanded international coverage of maps and imagery, including the first bird’s eye outside the US, namely in the UK (here’s a collection with some of the highlights). We will continue to expand the coverage of bird’s eye across the US, UK and other areas, rolling out additional imagery on a regular basis.
Aerial imagery has also been improved. In the UK, we have detailed aerial imagery of most of England and We also have improved the base level coverage for aerial imagery, bringing it down to level 13 world wide, from level 8 previously (see here for details on level 13’s resolution).
We have expanded road map and routing/directions coverage to a number of countries (English only, localization will come later). UK and Canada both have major highway and city/town level detail for maps and routing. Western Europe, Australia, and a few other areas have city to city routing on major highways and thoroughfares.
from
http://blogs.msdn.com/virtualearth/archive/2006/05/23/596729.aspx
|
AlbinoFlea
05/24/06 05:57 PM
|
Took a while to create these since BE coverage is so spotty, but here's two pairs of links with associated BE views, one in which the latitude stays the same and the longitude changes, and the other vice-versa. It should allow for a better delineation of effects:
East-West Comparison
aerial
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=39.94227~-86.149354&style=h&lvl=15
be
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qnqb4t7tmv5d&style=o&lvl=1&scene=199992
- - - -
aerial
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=39.94227~-75.180163&style=h&lvl=15
be
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qnqb6f8r1gn0&style=o&lvl=1&scene=1972223
= = = = =
North-South Comparison
aerial
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=44.020472~-92.466431&style=h&lvl=15
be
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=rb323q78v0hx&style=o&lvl=1&scene=3935011
- - - - -
aerial
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=32.529141~-92.466431&style=h&lvl=15
be
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=pdnc4078v0hx&style=o&lvl=1&scene=3911044
|
nic
05/25/06 12:41 AM
|
http://local.live.com/?v=2&cid=546E7E30AC2C5011!1193
|
romulusnr
05/25/06 07:28 PM
|
If these are base36 numbers, they don't appear to be directly propotional. Given the proportions of the two longitude vlaues, following a mathematical progression, I would expect to see roughly the following correspondence if these numbers are at least proportional (and in base36):
-140.995309 36lvp6 -130.026118 440h6t -119.056927 51f2og -108.087736 5yto63 -97.118545 6w89nq -86.149354 7tmv5d -75.180163 8tmv5d -64.210972 9og24n -53.241781 alunma -42.272590 Bj993x -31.303399 Cgnulk -20.334208 De2g37 -9.365017 ebh1ku 1.604174 F8vn2h
|
Parabellum
05/26/06 05:54 PM
|
Quote:
If these are base36 numbers, they don't appear to be directly propotional. Given the proportions of the two longitude vlaues, following a mathematical progression, I would expect to see roughly the following correspondence if these numbers are at least proportional (and in base36):
-140.995309 36lvp6 -130.026118 440h6t -119.056927 51f2og -108.087736 5yto63 -97.118545 6w89nq -86.149354 7tmv5d -75.180163 8tmv5d -64.210972 9og24n -53.241781 alunma -42.272590 Bj993x -31.303399 Cgnulk -20.334208 De2g37 -9.365017 ebh1ku 1.604174 F8vn2h
Ya know, I was just thinking the same thing this afternoon as I was digging a ditch.
You brainiacs keep working on this please. I've got the first A -IF in GB on LL BE bookmarked and ready to post.
VGT Moderator
|
mlc1us
12/15/06 12:45 PM
|
Lat and Lon now in BEV permalinks, but they will take you to the wrong scene
|
kjfitz
12/15/06 01:15 PM
|
It helps if you zoom all the way out first before clicking permalink.
Also sometimes it helps if you flip to map mode, click permalink, then go to BEV mode.
Argh!
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
|
kjfitz
12/15/06 02:35 PM
|
OK, the new interface "Officially Sucks."
It broke every link over at Bird's Eye Tourist since it is not backwards compatible with the old link type.
It is also impossible to navigate to get a permalink for some scenes that can clearly be navigated to.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
|
Ozzy
12/26/06 03:14 PM
|
This explains why the last maps I submitted were way off on the Live Local views, then the GM links are not working either. The only other way I see is to take the permalink and begin making corrections on the lat/long numbers to get the correct view. Kind of like firing artillery.
|
kjfitz
12/26/06 03:32 PM
|
The thing that works for me is to maneuver into the BEV view first. Then when you have the BEV view you want select the aerial view and request a Permalink. Once you have a Permalink switch back to BEV view.
IMPORTANT: At this point do not reposition the map at all. You can adjust the zoom or the direction/orientation but don't reposition the map.
Now request another Permalink and you'll have a good URL that you can use without editing. Once you've tried it you'll find it is much simpler that the old process of editing the URL.
It seems that for BEV views the Permalink request will often re-use the lat/lon that was used for the aeriall view Permalink if you don't move the map (undocumented feature/bug?)
Also, this won't work for a view for which there is not northernly oriented view. If you maneuver in on a BEV view using a westernly oriented view for which there is no northernly oriented view you'll not be able to return to the BEV view without the map getting repositioned. I've found it impossible to get a good BEV URL in these cases.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
|
Parabellum
12/26/06 05:37 PM
|
Thanks Fitz. That'll help a lot. I always hated editing URLs.
VGT Moderator
|
AlbinoFlea
10/02/07 02:11 AM
|
Hard to believe nobody has cracked this encryption yet.
I've fussed about with this a bit more and believe that while romulusnr's suggestion that these are base-36 encoded is near the mark... but still has some issues.
It seems that from every encrypted BEV lat/lon I've seen that actual alphanumerics used are as follows:
0123456789bcdfghjkmnpqrstvwxyz
That would make it base-36 with the vowels and the letter L removed, making it base-30. Can anyone counter this assertion, before I spend some more time following a base-30 path?
|