kjfitz
10/25/10 03:51 PM
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MAP SUBJECTS
Please refrain from posting maps just to make a point. There have been a spate of maps posted of random intersections and random people doing random things. These posts started as a protest against VGT's policy of allowing many "celebrity" posts that are arguably not homes of celebrities. Point made. Thank you.
The protest posts consume resources, bandwidth, time of moderators, and browser real estate while attracting very few views by visitors to VGT. While many arguments can be made against the "celebrity" posts they actually attract more visitors than any other type of post (except maybe a topless sunbather  )
We all have different interests. Try to be tolerant of other's interests and ignore them if you find them uninteresting. Don't denigrate them, spam them, call them names or troll them.
I can't elaborate a policy that covers everything that is acceptable and that isn't acceptable. The subject matter is too varied and there are too many exceptions. I won't even try. Use common sense and show good judgment.
I have cleaned out many but not all the offending posts. I'll continue to do so. I realize this will be a subjective decision on the part of each moderator. A few mistakes will probably be made along the way. Please work with us while we figure this out.
COMMENTS
As has been stated in the past, comments on maps are for discussion the map subject. They aren't a forum for the discussion of the relative merits of consumerism, politics, gossip, etc. If a celebrity home is posted then discuss the home, its resale, its architect, etc. This isn't a forum to discuss its occupant. Please keep comments on topic. We're pretty relaxed in the comments we allow but off topic comments or arguing and sniping in the comments is not allowed.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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jbottero
10/25/10 09:50 PM
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Like this recently approved map?
http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/house-for-sale/
For sale signs are OK? Because *I on it* if that's the case.
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kjfitz
10/25/10 11:51 PM
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Use your own common sense. Don't make posts to prove a point. Post interesting maps.
I have not removed all the maps that do not meet the stated criteria. You'll be able to find lots of exceptions. Pointing them out does not change anything stated in the original post.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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AKpilotEMT
10/26/10 12:10 PM
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If precedent has been established i.e. Mercedes or other cars or people on a bike or someone skateboarding or horses or someone walkin their dog or et-freakin'-cetera, then stop deleting new submissions of what you deem to be acceptable. If it's not acceptable then lose them all or else people will continue to think they are okay. If someone sees a horse they might want to post dozens of horses. Or someone with a baby stroller. You are happy with the ones you have so that says one thing -- future ones are okay also. Don't you realize that? But if future submissions are not okay then there's a bit of hypocrisy goin on. Make a decision -- all or none. Mercedes Benz posts are okay or not because I'm lookin at a search with many of them yet I just had one deleted. Same goes for someone on a bike and someone skateboarding and someone with a stroller. They exist on the site, numerous times, yet you have deleted mine. And seriously, for House for Sale signs are okay? The insanity isn't created by rabblerousers, it's created by people who approve idiocy and then *not* approve what's already a part of the site. Seriously -- "House for Sale" is more interesting and unusual than someone skateboarding down 5th Avenue in midtown Manhattan?!? Really? Or was that just discrimination against me even though the precedent has been set that skateboarding submissions are perfectly okay?
And oh my God, change the name of the "celebrity" homes if you're going to allow that garbage/invasion of privacy. Yes, a few out of the THOUSANDS are legitimate celebrities so I guess you can keep a celebrity category but you know perfectly well that most are not. You know this. You're not stupid. I realize they are the most looked at maps but for whatever reason I do not know. Maybe it's people from Kyrgyzstan and Americans still believing in the American Dream wanting to see what wealth can be wasted on. But I think you know that 99% of those "celebrity" maps are NOT celebrities. It doesn't matter if they bring in the most visitors to the site because a watermelon ain't a Chevy Malibu, it's a watermelon. Celebrity has meaning and you're attributing it to people who are not. That ain't right.
Sheesh. Come on. Have a policy that openly allows what's already here or none at all. And if you're going to allow those God awful doctor's and CEO's homes, and former homes, then change the category name. Please. And if you're going to allow a doctor who is *not* a celebrity, allow all people in business, or a fireman or a policeman, or a nurse, or a teacher or the social worker who busts her butt day in and day out to help children have better lives. Just like doctors, they are *not* celebrities . . . but are they so unimportant they have no place here? Don't create class warfare. That's also not right.
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kjfitz
10/26/10 12:26 PM
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We've posted our policy. It stands. 99.9% of the members of this community understand them, abide by them, and accept them.
Other changes are in progress as to the celeb posting. We may add new categories or re-categorize existing posts.
A final comment on precedence. There seems to be a mistaken belief that because someone posts a subject that an infinite number of them will be allowed. That isn't the case.
As for purging the database... we moderators do this for fun in our spare time. Searching through 100,000 posts to find borderline submissions to delete because one user chose to abuse a category just to prove a point is not an effective use of our time.
Ignore the posts you do not enjoy and post your own interesting posts. It really is that simple.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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jdubble07
10/26/10 12:45 PM
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Maybe if you were to change the titles from "Homes-Celebrity-Business" to "Homes-Businesspeople" it would appease the one or two blogtrolls who think they are judge of what is celebrity and what isn't.
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kjfitz
10/26/10 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Maybe if you were to change the titles from "Homes-Celebrity-Business" to "Homes-Businesspeople" it would appease the one or two blogtrolls who think they are judge of what is celebrity and what isn't.
Thanks. Something very like that is in the works.
kjfitz
Virtual Globetrotting Moderator
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AKpilotEMT
10/26/10 01:49 PM
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Look up celebrity in the dictionary.
And ask yourself this: "If I was to stand in Times Square during the busiest tourist week of the year, with people from all over the world visiting, and I surveyed 10,000 people to see if they know who Dr. Dermatologist in Omaha is or Mr. CEO of a local Dallas toilet handle manufacturing company, how many would know who I am referring to?" And how many would honestly care about their *former* homes?
1 yea?
9,999 nays?
The nays have it.
Celebrities? No. Plain and simple. No. Reasonable people understand this.
Yes, some of the few thousand are a celebrity to some degree. But a random anesthesiologist from Tucson? Give me a break.
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AKpilotEMT
10/26/10 01:52 PM
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It shouldn't take you more than 12 seconds to find skateboarding posts to delete. Same with stroller posts or whatever else you deem not as equally worthy as a proctologist who essentially no one on Earth has ever heard of's house. You don't have to spend days or weeks searching all almost 100,000 maps one by one. There's a handy search function which I am sure you know about. In just a mere few minutes or less you can weed out all those plain and boring Mercedes, exactly like the new submissions you did not accept today.
Look, if you allow those aforementioned topics to exist then you're saying to potential submitters that they are okay. If someone sees in Street View someone walking their dog or someone on a bike or etc, but they do *not* see wording that says future of those will be deleted, then what do you think they will think? They will think that those not-allowable submissions are okay. Don't you see this? If it doesn't say "No Diving" then diving is okay, right? Right. People cannot read your mind to know what's acceptable or not. Or do you expect them to?
You also said: "post your own interesting posts"
I've done that but you've deleted it like 3 or 4 times and threatened to ban me for submitting *my* interesting post that ones like it exist of. Seriously, is someone skateboarding down 5th Avenue in Manhattan not interesting? Compared to the total number of people in Manhattan visible in Street View, how unusual is it to find a person skateboarding? Think about it. Do you have any idea?!?
(Have you even tried to formulate an answer?)
The answer proves you discriminated against me this morning because it's a more interesting map than any random doctor's house that no one essentially has ever heard of. This can't be denied. I also posted someone walking their dog. Why is that getting deleted? Those exist. Yes? No? Have they been purged yet? Where is it stated that someone walking their dog is no longer acceptable?
Posting what you have deleted is about following precedent. It's *not* about proving a point because that's something which you cannot prove to begin with because that would mean you're reading my mind which I will say flat out you cannot do. Or can you?
Please -- eliminate the existing no longer acceptable maps. Tell people what's okay and what's not.
Then there won't be misunderstanding.
I'm not asking this selfishly for me. I'm asking for the sake of others who might post in an hour or a month or next year. They shouldn't have to take the time to see if dogs exist, take the time to submit a dog, and then have their dog submission deleted when it's not posted that no dogs are allowed.
If it says somewhere "No more skateboarders, strollers, dogs, Mercedes, etc" then please show members where. You said the policy is posted but I can't find a list of Yea's and Nay's. If that list does exist and is posted then will you please forgive me for not seeing it? Point it out to me and I will be sure to read it. If it doesn't exist and/or isn't posted then won't you allow me and others to see that list? Please. I'm asking you nicely. Don't make people guess or expect them to read your mind. And until you purge and publicly post what's not acceptable, don't get mad at those interesting submissions. Remember, what's interesting to someone, you might think is total crap. And what's already here is a nothing less than a Green Light to more of those *unless* it's clearly stated otherwise.
Good Day
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nic
10/26/10 02:30 PM
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AK,
It's not a good use of our time, nor something we intend to do, to go through old submissions and remove ones that are "boring" (subjectively) to someone.
The reason Kevin posted the policy above in the first place is it was clear you were posting intentionally "boring" locations, such as all of the intersections of a city, just to "make a point". I believe there were some comments you posted on other maps alluding to that fact. If in fact you truly were interested in intersections, we'd be more than happy to keep your posts of intersections.
As Kevin says, posts what is interesting to you. Ignore others posts of things that aren't interesting to you.
You have to understand that we have good justification to remove posting of yours that were basically done in spite. They consume our time, server resources, and visual real estate away from other posts that were submitted because someone was truly interested in them.
We appreciate all of your postings and your contributions to the site. I would love to continue seeing postings from you that are of interest to you. I think Kevin's policies above are fair. If you disagree, you don't have to post here.
Have a good one.
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alfjon
10/31/10 01:08 PM
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I can say that I don´t post much more here because of all worthless "People doing interesting things" maps that some submitters in my opinion Spam the website with.
I have taken it up for discussion before and maps like the one "jbottero" show in his post above are completly worthless and useless, It is pure crap in my opinion.
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nic
11/01/10 02:15 PM
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alfjon - is this because they overwhelm what you see on the home page for new submissions?
Or do they show up when you're browsing other areas of the site?
Ideally, the "less interesting" maps fall off the radar because they aren't view much, and besides the "latest" sort, they shouldn't show up in the lists of maps because they won't have views/ratings.
There have been some requests to filter out categories from the home page for users -- is this something you'd like?
Any other suggestions?
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alfjon
11/02/10 03:47 PM
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Quote:
is this something you'd like?
Any other suggestions?
No I have nothing to say than I personally will keep my submitting of maps to a minimum and only submit maps with 110% value to the website.
That´s all.
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Tyco
11/04/10 01:00 PM
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I look for things that are interesting to me and or that a story can be created around. Yesterday, I posted a little girl in front of a flower pot. I agree not so interesting but throw in the line "Jane and the beanstalk" and it is an attention grabber. Granted the plant was a sunflower not a beanstalk, but the point was to create a story line that people can relate to on a personal level. I agree that 90-99% of the celebrities I have no idea who they are and wouldn't consider celebs, but for some set of people in the world they are, so I just skip looking at them.
I think the moderators are doing a fabulous job and anything we can do to make their lives easier we should be doing. We are invited guests of their community and should respect their requests. Unique cars are cool, mass produced cars, not so much. Also think about what has been asked for by the moderators in hunts or other games, that gives you an idea of what the moderators want on their site.
This is coming from a hot head who has gone off on the moderators once or twice, sorry guys. Keep up the good work.
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alfjon
11/08/10 05:44 PM
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Quote:
alfjon - is this because they overwhelm what you see on the home page for new submissions?
Or do they show up when you're browsing other areas of the site?
Ideally, the "less interesting" maps fall off the radar because they aren't view much, and besides the "latest" sort, they shouldn't show up in the lists of maps because they won't have views/ratings.
There have been some requests to filter out categories from the home page for users -- is this something you'd like?
Any other suggestions?
Well after thinking over things. You should put up Much harder rules for what should be approved in Street View section. And I mean Really Hard rules and regulations.
Take a look in the sections under StreetView and Most of the maps are worthless junk, random cars, signs and hokers everywhere, it is crap in pure english.
Street View is fun to look at but only if it worth something.
Celebrity houses as this thread started with are okey, BUT Info Link Must be submitted.
Info link should be mandatory for All maps IMO.
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AKpilotEMT
11/08/10 08:30 PM
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Let me first say Alfjon makes great points.
Now some ideas:
+++ Know what you're posting.
If it's just an apple, don't call it a watermelon. An amusement park in America would have a name. A carnival is not an amusement park. If it's an Amusement park -- GIVE ITS NAME!!! If you don't know the name then do some research and find it and/or make it a point to ask for help in naming what you wish to post.
Does Virtual Globetrotting care about accuracy or can maps be completely ambiguous and unnamed? Can someone submit a car and label it "horseless carriage"? Can someone submit a building and simply title it "building"? Or how about submitting baseball fields and naming each one "sports field"?
+++ COMMENTS ASKING FOR A MAP'S PROPER NAME SHOULD NOT BE DELETED . . . like my question on a map recently was 3 or 4 times. I'd still like to know -- why was asking for an Amusement park's name wrong? Was that bias against me? Or would anyone's question have been deleted?
I repeat: I'd still like to know -- why was asking for an Amusement park's name wrong? Things in America usually have names and accuracy is a good thing. Am I shithead for thinking so?
And don't you think if someone posts an orange but calls it an apple, and someone else calls them out on it, that they might be correct? This goes back to the accuracy question above. If someone knows it's not an apple, why you just leave it as "apple" when it could be more accurately described? (That was done this afternoon with the Amusement park. And comments were disabled so that it would forever be labeled wrong without anyone challenging it or asking for its name. This makes no sense. Or does it? I do realize it was bias against me but I wasn't wrong in anything I said. Was I? Extremely perplexing.)
+++ I agree on random cars, signs and hookers (and such.) There has been some crackdown on such idiocy but the "interesting" level really needs to hit a certain height or it's worthless.
"People doing interesting things" should have some honest truth to it.
I realize one man's interesting is another man's boring garbage but come on. There's tons of this junk around.
So what?!?!?!
And how many Mercedes cars are you going to allow? Every single one visible in Street View? What about Dodges? What about women in a bikini or prostitutes? Or signs showing which direction to Malta, Montana or Paris, Texas? Some of this crap I am guilty of only because similar existed before mine. I guess what I'm saying is this great site shouldn't have so much of this junk. Is that really the policy? Allow it all? Obviously not because sometimes some things do get rejected.
But I submit that precedence *is* important . . .
if you don't clearly post what is NOT ALLOWED while you have past similar maps still included here, how can you expect to not upset/tick people off by rejecting their flood of Dodges or people walking their dog? Will you truly accept endless of each of those or an endless slew of people NOT doing something interesting? (Again, I realize one man's interesting is another man's YAWN but there seems to be a huge grey area concerning what passes and what doesn't.)
If you want to purge but need help but don't have time, ask for helpers who do have time. Give them a list. Let them purge away. And on the submission page (and elsewhere) post the list of "NONE OF THESE ALLOWED" for everyone to see.
+++ Don't allow people to make things up they don't know to be true.
  
 
How is it known anyone in those images is lost? There's *no* way to know if they are lost. Is there? You got a time machine to go back in time and ask them if they're lost 'cause I don't.
Have you, yes YOU reading this, have you ever looked at a map when you weren't lost? I have. I've looked at maps to see which way might be best to go. I've looked at maps to see what's nearby. And I'm sure I've looked at maps for another reason or two when I WAS NOT LOST.
To assume things/make stuff up is cartoonish. Yes, it can be fun to use your imagination but things should be described as they are, not what they *might* or *could* be. Each of those maps above should all be renamed. At least add a question mark but don't assume to know when there's no way you can.
+++ Add more categories. You have about a fawillion categories for satellite imagery while there's just a fraction for Street View. They don't need to be exactly even, no, I'm not suggesting that. But if you look at Street View - Buildings - Misc, for instance, you'd see how if it was satellite imagery it would have its own category. Street View is expanding and I'm guessing submissions for Street View will only increase so it would make sense to have slightly more balance. And again, if you need help getting past submissions into newly created categories where they are more appropriate, just ask and I'm sure someone would be happy to help improve the site in this manner.
+++ If you're going to keep allowing private homes of private people then CHANGE THE NAME OF SOME OF THE "CELEBRITIES" categories. Even Brad Pitt is a private person who lives in a private home but at least he's a celebrity. What a celebrity truly is can better be understood if you look outside of the basic definition and include the meaning of a couple other words. If you have common sense and a decent I.Q. you don't even have to open the dictionary to really know this, though.
A person who is a high level executive at some company that almost no one has ever heard of, or even the owner of a local chain of grocery stores, is not truly a celebrity unless he or she has done something to really warrant that title. Doctors are not automatically celebrities. Are they? No. "Congratulations, you've just graduated from Med School, you are not officially a doctor and a celebrity"??????????
When it comes to some random gerontologist in Charleston or some Wichita window company's President, it should just be so obvious that next to no one in a random poll will know who the heck you're talking about. Seriously look through the business "celebrities" here and see how many you know of. Bill Gates? Of course. President of a chain of Toyota dealerships in Tucson? No. President of a Wall Street overseas bond trading firm you've never heard of? No. Calling them celebrities is like calling an ant hill a Great Pyramid and that just ain't right.
+++ "Celebrity" maps should have a more info link for every single one saying where the address came from. And someone should be checking them all to make sure the person in question still lives there. People move. People die.
Prove it is what you're claiming it is. Maybe you've heard the saying from teachers to math students -- "Show your work."
I contend those maps should be stopped altogether because A) it's an unnecessary invasion of privacy B) no one is checking on their current status C) street address mapping isn't always accurate. Is it? No. If you pick out 50 random doctors addresses, one from each state, and map them all using Google and/or Bing, if you could verify them all, would you have 100% accuracy? I can tell you my maps have a high percentage of accuracy as to where and what it is. If the maps of doctors and ceo's and lower level executives of random companies reaches 10,000 or 15,000 or 20,000, how many will be accurate as far as location? As time goes on, how many will be accurate as to whether or not the person still lives there?
And when a Vice President of a sink manufacturing company moves, is his or her former home really important? I mean truly? Their current home isn't important now, why the dang heck would their former home be?!? Reasonable people know this. And reasonable people know that said company executive is no more important than the local detective in your town helping to fight crime against children, or crime against anyone for that matter. What about the physical therapist who helps your child walk again after a near-life ending car accident? That physical therapist is not a doctor nor a celebrity and neither is the detective but you allow the Toilet Manufacturing Company's former CEO's former home but the others have no place here? I realize toilets are important but stop and think about this. An heiress who is not a celebrity and who has done nothing in her life, her mansion is important enough to be here? Why? Because it's a mansion? Because she's rich? But a nurse who is not a celebrity, who lives paycheck to paycheck, who dedicates her life to helping people, that person's home is meaningless?
Why the class warfare? Why is wealth worshiped while the homes of truly great human beings are cast aside like puke?
P.S. heya jbottero, have you started compiling "For Sale" signs to submit?
I see that "House for sale" is still good and interesting subject matter...
http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/house-for-sale/
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